You stated you are an ex-Christian that opposes every word of Jesus i.e., the gospels.

The gay community and all other secularists hate the American Christianity, its biblical morality, and the laws early American colonial and state laws rooted in Constitutional law. They have to be because Christianity, natural law, and religious morality opposes all of secular sexual politics. The reason secularists oppose legislating morality is due to the fact that they legislate immorality.

That is what you seem to identify with.

Christianity does in fact make people more moral because a relationship with a real God and Create produces a godly character in those who remain faithful and honest.

You know what I mean. You said, you grew up Christian. You will never forget that God’s rule of law has always existed and is the standard by which we are all judge now and will be forever. When you die, all of the testimonies of prophets, apostles, those who experience life changing reality of God, and those who have told us what they experienced in death–heaven and hell.

Without the death of Jesus, you nor anyone else has any grace of God. Grace is the same as tolerance of immorality and evil. I suspect the devil is a pretty nice guy to those he can deceive.

Regina Griggs of PFOX (Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays) continues to tell whoppers. In this article at OneNewsNow she tells a huge lie:

She also makes the ridiculous claim that teenagers can’t self-identify as straight or gay. Has she never been a teenager? I knew I was straight the moment I hit puberty and started feeling sexually attracted to girls. Every gay man I know says the exact same thing about feeling sexually attracted to boys at the same time. There wasn’t any confusion about it, you just are what you are, no choice involved.

I had a feeling it was NARTH or something.

NARTH – the “secular” group that is actually a “Christian” group founded by a mental health “professional” who isn’t respected by 99% of his field, and which exists purely so that Christian fundamentalists, whose followers don’t know any better, may believe that ANYONE besides other Christian fundamentalists believes the way they do.

Oh, and the gay community isn’t against Christians — that’s just what your leaders tell you to keep the checks coming into their “ministries.” We’re not *against* anybody. We’re *for* living our lives in peace with equal rights. Christian Fundamentalists are the ones who cannot handle that, who abuse the United States Constitution with their beliefs that somehow the other 80% of the nation (yes, 80%…don’t kid yourself) should be forced to live under the Christian Shari’a law (and the junk science!) espoused by the Fundamentalist 20%. This is, however, a free society, with a free exchange of ideas.

I don’t know why you throw around words like “propagandist” though. It’s an alarming tell for how you procure your information. It’s funny, though, because I don’t think you really want to get into an argument with me or any other educated progressive on which side has a better grasp of simple facts.

“It takes more disciplined maturity to live faithfully and morally to God than propagandist could handle.”

I’m not quite sure what this means, but I would point out that part of the myth that’s being broken is that religion makes people more moral…

It’s simply not true. This is not to say that religious people are less moral, but it’s to suggest that religion has no net effect on the morality of peoples’ lives. And no, people do not need God to know the difference between love and hate, good and bad. Consider…the Sumerians invented glue 1,000 years before the supposed “fall” of man in the Garden of Eden, long before any kind of Hebrew ethic/moral code existed. They were doing just fine!

In fact, most atheists I know live with far more Christ-like grace than any Fundamentalist Christian I’ve ever met, and let me tell you, I was raised Calvinist Presbyterian, with a brief jaunt into the SBC, so I know that of which I speak.

Not only is PFOX membered by ex-gays and their parents and friends but so is Exodus Intl.

The propagandists of gay politics decry Christians opponents as bigots. It is rather amazing the bigotry of those who use science like a religion to supposedly legitimate their claims like the statement: “God created the biology that governs sexual orientation. Human biology as created by God doesn’t predetermine unnatural feelings–the rule of sin or its twisted root through abuse. Even European evolutionists and biologists like Steven Rose don’t buy such nonsense.

Only a naive or dishonest heart pretends the human race must grow out an immature dependence on religion, i.e. God. I was one. It takes more disciplined maturity to live faithfully and morally to God than propagandist could handle. No one is so crazy to do so without a real relationship with God who intervenes is real life.

When science has observational data to explain the 90% of the universe scientists claim they mostly nothing about, then the scientific bull of gay and other secular propagandists might be believable.

Evan, you can read Whitehead’s article where i stumbled on to it–that is at NARTH:
http://www.narth.com/docs/decrease.html

This is so simplistic it’s boring, but newsflash: even those men who claim to be “ex-gays” are forced to admit that they’re still attracted to men.

God created the biology that governs sexual orientation.

I’ve said it so many places, but we, as a human race, have got to grow out of hiding behind mystical/religious explanations for things such as sexuality. Science is answering the questions, ergo the religious arguments are becoming more and more irrelevant every day.

Still no link the Whitehead article I requested.

Liberals cite their sources fully.

:)

It seems he disagrees because he is blind to reality. His is the only reality because he says so. His statement cause me to believe he is a absolutist. His gay views are the only absolute truth their is. If the judge is himself gay, he is the ultimate self-identifier. His omnipotent universe is predetermined and predestinedly gay. Yet, when he (and the rest of us) die, the ultimate and eternal truth will be the only fact that matters.

Their a lot of witnesses to life-after-death as studied and reported by physicians–studies that began because of their patients experiences.

Many ex-gays claim they have or are overcoming their problem through the empowerment of God and Jesus Christ. Lots of people have overcome other types of obsessions, bondages, and other problems by the same.

It really doesn’t matter what gay propagandists claim cannot change, ex-gays are proof that once-gay-always-gay is a lie.

I think I was typing something, then inserted something in a different place, blah blah blah we’ve all done it.

First of all, link me to Whitehead.

Because a degree in chemistry doesn’t tell me he’s not a wingnut…lots of religious people eke out degrees.

Whitehead’s reasoning here is flawed, because his interpretation of the data doesn’t actually prove causality between self-labeling and suicide attempts. Slowly: Correlation does not necessarily equal causality. What Remafedi is obviously objecting to is Griggs’ (and Whitehead’s, presumably) conflation of the two in order to further her own bigoted aims.

There are far more factors in between. We already know enough to understand that males understand our sexual urges from the onset of puberty. The only question is whether or not we accept what it is we’re attracted to.

It simply doesn’t.

Whitehead is asking all the wrong questions, in light of reality. The self-labeling is irrelevant — the kids who are gay are simply gay. No Conservative Christian activism/praying it away/whatever else is going to change things over here in the real world. We can all agree that it’s good to encourage kids, gay and straight, to wait until adulthood to have sex. That’s fine. As to the “discourage activists who promote early self-labeling” line, that’s mostly a strawman. Gay activists are working in the realm of reality that understands that gay kids simply are, and that they need to be supported (not changed, not brainwashed, not told that God disapproves of who they are) where they are.

So, yeah, I remain pretty disgusted with Regina Griggs’ soulless attempt to use the real problem of suicide among gay teens in order to push her anti-Christian agenda (and when I say “anti-Christian” I’m using it in the sense of “against everything Jesus ever said”).

But then again, this is the same whiner who runs around claiming that “ex-gays” are “discriminated against.”

According to Neil Whitehead, who has a Ph.D. in “chemistry and has been employed by the New Zealand government as a scientist for 24 years and worked for the United Nations for four years, the Pediatrics article by Dr. Remafedi et al. states on p.74:

“For each year’s delay in bisexual or homosexual self-labeling, the odds of a suicide attempt diminished by 80%.”

Whitehead points out that “by 80%”‘ is a mistake. It should be “to 80%” to be accurate.

“The “Odds ratio” means that for each year, the probability of an attempt at suicide diminishes from 1.00 to 0.82, i.e., it diminishes 18%. The two figures 21% and 18% are not in conflict because of the size of the standard error, making them the same with statistical error. A good round figure would be to say the probability diminishes by 20% per year or diminishes to 80%. It looks like the authors wrote “by” when to be consistent with the more precise numbers in their table, they should have written ‘to’.”

What does Dr. Whitehead’s conclude from the data?

“This means that the earlier self labeling occurs, the higher the risk of suicide attempts. The authors state in the paper that:

…suicide attempts were not explained by
experiences with discrimination, violence, loss
of friendship, or current personal attitudes
towards homosexuality.

“This is contrary to frequently and reasonably expressed hypotheses that discrimination against homosexual people causes suicide attempts. However, all numerical tests ever done, such as the one in this paper, do not support the link. There are usually other reasons for suicide attempts, and the authors state that family problems were the most frequently cited reason.”

Dr. Remafedi stated:

‘…gender nonconformity and precocious psychosexual development were predictive of self harm. Compared with peers, suicide attempters recognized homosexual attractions and told other persons at younger ages. First sexual experiences with males and females also occurred at younger ages than peers’.

“Early sexual experience was predictive of suicide attempts.”

Whitehead further cautions about stating that delaying self-labeling will prevent suicide. Regina’s error. From a public policy standpoint, he states, However, from the point of view of policy (which must always err on the conservative side when matters of life-and-death like suicide attempts are involved) it would be highly prudent to :

(a) Discourage early sexual experience
(b) Discourage early self-labeling
(c) Discourage activists who promote early self-labeling.”

“Those in charge of young people are usually legally responsible for the best possible care, and would probably be legally liable if they failed to take into account the above data and a death resulted, particularly if it were brought to their attention beforehand.”

Regina Griggs is neither a scientist or policy-maker. She is an public policy advocate. Accusing her of blatant lying is ludicrous. As far as her misrepresenting Dr. Remafedi, it appears that he misrepresents his own research.

Ms. Griggs didn’t merely “overstep the boundary of truth.” She inserted a conclusion that simply wasn’t there, yet fit her own stunted worldview.

You said:

Translated, it means there is like a problem with 15 yr. olds self-identifying as gays at this still formative time of life, but more extensive study needs to be done.

No. This is absolutely nowhere to be found in the study. That’s the part that Regina Griggs arbitrarily added. I’m sorry that those on the God Hates Fags side of the argument petulantly refuse to acknowledge this.

Read Remafedi’s response again:

“PFOX misuses one of my studies on suicide attempts in gay youth to argue that people should not identify their sexual orientation at young ages. Our findings do not support the contention that young people choose their identity or the timing of events in identity formation. Nor is there any evidence that the availability of GSAs influences those developmental processes.

Griggs flat-out lied and she got called on it.

This is not an isolated incident. Anti-gay hate groups such as PFOX, Focus, AFT, and their ilk routinely misuse scientific studies. Why? Because they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that most of their true believers aren’t likely to fact check them.

For those interested, here’s a website that exists to document and counter incidences of right-wing “Christian” businesses distorting the research of real scientists: http://www.respectmyresearch.org/index1.html

Evan failed to mention that the study by Dr. Remafedi titled “Risk Factors for Attempted Suicide in Gay and Bisexual Youth” sampled 137 teens. The Box Turtle author claims it was an unrepesentative study.

Was Dr. Remafedi studying straight teens to determine if gays commit suicide and why? If he was studying teens who claimed to be gay or bi-sexual, it must have been representative.

Oh, wait a minute, the Box Turtle author probably meant the number of self-indentifying gays must be too small a number to be representative. Yet, in my graduate statistics class, the magic number is a minimum of 30 to be considered minimally representative.

Evan and his source lie about Regina lying when her terrible sin is just misrepresenting the study of self-identifying gay according to Dr. Remafedi. Regina should have been more accurate in her use of the supposedly scientific research. That is, her unforgiveable crime against gay propaganda is in her failing to mention the 3 letter word “may.”

Dr. Remafedi’s supposedly scientific study published in the prestigious medical journal may not adequately represent the gay and bi-sexual teen population. Translated, it means there is like a problem with 15 yr. olds self-identifying as gays at this still formative time of life, but more extensive study needs to be done.

It’s true folks; Regina Griggs did overstep the boundary of truth when she failed to include that 3 letter word, but at least she erred on the side of truth and science unlike those pushing gay sexual politics.

Regina Griggs LIED about the research she cited, as the anti-gay side often does.

According to the researcher behind the statistics Regina Griggs misused:

My work has been cited by PFOX in response to a Washington Post article on gay-straight alliances (GSA),” wrote Dr. Remafedi. “PFOX misuses one of my studies on suicide attempts in gay youth to argue that people should not identify their sexual orientation at young ages. Our findings do not support the contention that young people choose their identity or the timing of events in identity formation. Nor is there any evidence that the availability of GSAs influences those developmental processes.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/22/2404

Oh, and angryxtian, I truly hope you never have a gay child, because your attitudes are the kind that just might make your kid kill himself, and that blood would be on your hands.

Later.

I live in a country called America that got made for God and liberty and freedom and everything that’s right. But it’s beeing slowly taken over by librals. We have to work together and rais awareness of these things most people dont realise so a man can raise a decent family to respect the law and be good people of society.

Why a 15 year old should be gay? Thats to young to even b having sex at all and there supposed to say they dont even ever want to have chidren!

So when someone realises the light of day and goes back to being straight, the school censors them? I thought those librals keep saying they like free speech! Only when its for the extreme libral agenda I guess.

C’mon…the politics of gays consists of no plans for the reformation of gays except to further dupe themselves into the conviction that their immoral behavior is natural (even though it is obviously unnatural) and that their lies are true and that all the world must accept it to even by force of law. That is called totalitarianism.

Fill your blondie head with something other the rank air of gay political bull crap.

You would think this form of abuse should be banned from schools.